Set di rubli Zecca di Leningrado (era: Quiz dell’accatto sovietico)

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Set di rubli Zecca di Leningrado (era: Quiz dell’accatto sovietico)

Messaggio da DaniLao »

Dopo il successo della precedente edizione ripropongo il gioco.

Cosa diavolo mi sarò accattato?

Già che questa volta ho già in mano l’affare ve la faccio più breve e fornisco indizi più diretti e semplici.

Questo sotto, comunque, oltre ad essere indizio ha pure qualcosa di piuttosto particolare che ho appreso, soddisfatto, solo all’apertura.

Ah, è arrivato doppio ma non lo è per nulla, anzi

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Re: Quiz dell’accatto sovietico

Messaggio da Cane »

Una scatola di questi? :lol:

Cosa c'e' scritto in bianco, moneta...menta? :roll:

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Re: Quiz dell’accatto sovietico

Messaggio da Крокодил »

Cane ha scritto: 22 lug 2018, 12:54Cosa c'e' scritto in bianco, moneta...menta? :roll:
?

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Re: Quiz dell’accatto sovietico

Messaggio da zvezda »

Due begli indizi direi!
Il primo ci porta qui: https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9C%D0 ... 0%BE%D1%80
Il secondo ci fa tornare indietro ai tempi dell'URSS e della fame cronica di valuta estera: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ber%C3%ABzka
Qualche rublozzo fior di conio sovietico?
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Re: Quiz dell’accatto sovietico

Messaggio da DaniLao »

zvezda ha scritto: 23 lug 2018, 7:48Il secondo ci fa tornare indietro ai tempi dell'URSS e della fame cronica di valuta estera: https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ber%C3%ABzka
E bravo Marco che pone l’accento sull’argomento più interessante ovvero l’etichetta col prezzo che ci fornisce spunto per parlare dei Beriozka.
L’acquisto passa –in effetti- in secondo piano e ne riparleremo non appena farò qualche foto interessante.

Intanto, il link da Wikipedia è già interessante e vi invito a leggerlo.
Tuttavia lo sapete che sono fissato con le foto, dunque vi voglio far vedere com’eran fatti dentro :-D

Ce n’erano di generalisti e di specializzati, come questo sotto che era a Mosca (la foto viene da Vneshposyltorg catalogue, Moscow 1974, p. 2)

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Ci si poteva acquistare (beh, chi poteva…), di tutto, dall’elettronica (Vneshposyltorg catalogue, Moscow 1982, p. 113)

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agli alimentari….

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Da notare la cassiera, colei che detiene il potere sui flussi economici, la quale -in sintonia col ruolo- si legge goduta la Pravda mentre una signora anziana temporeggia sapendo benissimo che un’interruzione le varrebbe la Siberia

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Ma anche scarpe o autoveicoli.
Beh, per quelli c’era da attendere qualche lustro almeno tu non avessi amicizie in alto ma pazienza… (auto da Vneshposyltorg catalogue, Moscow 1982, p. 141 e scarpe vendute nel B. di Mosca nel ’67, Vneshposyltorg catalogue, Moscow 1967, p. 4)


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I Beriozka furono inaugurati negli anni ‘60 ed erano utili all’economia Sovietica a seguito dell’espansione politica che portò all’apertura di ambasciate o missioni all’estero e a dover gestire pagamenti e flussi di valute estere (anche i turisti dal ‘61 potevano utilizzare le proprie, per esempio).

Erano stati preceduti dai Torgsin (crasi di torgovlia s inostrantsami, commercio con stranieri)negli anni ’30 e chiusero i battenti nel 1988 rimanendo un punto controverso dell’economia Sovietica, per riassumere come probabilmente la vedevano a quei tempi, ecco una vignetta tratta dal numero 30 del 1978 della rivista satirica Krokodil (disegno di V. Uborevitch-Borovskii)

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In alcuni casi i propri crediti dovevano essere convertiti in una sorta di assegni e pare anche che il KGB ne controllasse l’utilizzo.
In un’economia controllata la manipolazione di valuta era un reato significativo e chi fosse stato trovato in possesso di crediti difficili da giustificare avrebbe probabilmente passato qualche brutto quarto d’ora.
Forse.
O molto più probabilmente anche di quelli c’era un fiorente mercato nero (era comunque un problema, nei Beriozka si compravano beni adatti ad un pubblico benestante, spesso cose inutili alla vita di tutti i giorni che venivano a loro volta di nuovo immesse nel mercato nero…)

Quanto sopra (molte delle foto anche) è scritto prendendo spunto da un saggio di Anna Ivanovna che vi invito a leggere (al link trovate anche PDF e versione stampabile, eventualmente) perché oltre ad una puntuale analisi storica approfondisce anche la percezione sociale e di quali tipologie fossero i clienti.

Per finire in leggerezza facciamo un passo indietro nel Sovietico con la macchina del tempo del NY Times per leggere un interessante guida indirizzata al mondo capitalistico per lo shopping nei Beriozka che è stata pubblicata nel 1983 dalla celebre rivista statunitense e che –nonostante la lunghezza- mi permetto di citare integralmente per quanto è goduriosa.

C'è anche una menzione ai nosti già vituperati orologi sovietici:

Goods sold in the shops range from products like watches (inexpensive, often attractive but difficult to repair outside the Soviet Union) to blank tape cassettes, imported perfumes and liquor, sundries and snacks, books and records.


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SHOPPER'S WORLD; CAPITALIST'S GUIDE TO BERIOZKAS

Inexpensive carved bone brooches in a delightful variety of animal and flower motifs could be bought by the handful last March in the Soviet Union. By April, the pins had vanished. Instead a profusion of nested metal ashtrays bristling like hedgehogs spilled over the shelves of the Beriozka stores, the state-run shops to which only foreign tourists with hard currency have access.
''Now you see it, now you don't'' might well be the motto of the American tourist (and the Soviet consumer, too, by the way) wishing to purchase gifts or souvenirs in the U.S.S.R. That country's anticonsumer ideology and production inefficiency require a strategy for shopping. In short, visitors need information not available in most guidebooks if they want to avoid disappointment, frustration and potential hassles with overzealous customs officials.

What follows is a 10-point program for making the most of the shopping opportunities in the Soviet Union.

  • 1. Tourists should realize that by comparison with Soviet citizens they are extraordinarily privileged. Because the Soviets want hard currency, and also because Russians are traditionally hospitable, the U.S.S.R. caters to foreign tourists through its Beriozka shops (the name means little birch tree and refers to the national symbol).
    Beriozkas are found in most large tourist hotels (usually on the second floor), in some airports and in or near major tourist sites. Most offer representative samples of native products at prices below those paid by Soviet citizens in their own shops. Beriozkas accept only foreign currencies and such credit cards as American Express, Visa and Carte Blanche.
    There are bargains to be had, but visitors from the United States should be aware that after the initial $400 duty-free exemption and the next $1,000 taxed at a flat 10 percent rate, the duty on imports from Communist countries in excess of $1,400 could then go as high as 110 percent on some items, such as cigarette lighters.
    Beriozkas are arranged like supermarkets, with most items on open shelves. Visitors may browse at leisure, fill up baskets or shopping carts provided on the premises and pay for all purchases at once. Furs, jewelry, caviar and very expensive or small items are kept in glass cases or locked behind counters.
    Goods sold in the shops range from products like watches (inexpensive, often attractive but difficult to repair outside the Soviet Union) to blank tape cassettes, imported perfumes and liquor, sundries and snacks, books and records.
    Of most interest to many tourists are the amber jewelry and gilded enamelware, cheerful khokhloma (painted wooden bowls, spoons and other household objects), luminous lacquered boxes illustrated with scenes from Russian folklore and history, Matryoshka or nesting dolls, embroidered skirts, children's toys and woodcarvings -and, of course, vodka and caviar.
    Prices are fixed, so the same object costs the same amount in any Beriozka. All these factors would seem to make shopping easy, but in the Soviet Union things aren't always what they seem.
  • 2. While all Beriozkas are equal in charging identical prices, some are more equal than others inasmuch as they are large or more selective or serendipitously contain goods of better quality or design (See box). For this reason, you should always buy what you like when you see it. You may find dozens of duplicates at the next Beriozka - or, as in the case of the bone brooches mentioned above, you may never encounter the object again.
    Some brightly enameled salt cellars, for example, purchased in Irkutsk, Siberia, for one ruble, 66 kopecks (about $2.30) appeared in only one other Beriozka in Moscow. I saw a lovely pin fashioned from a geode of rosy quartz crystals set in silver. The pin cost 18 rubles (about $24) in one shop in Leningrad; nothing vaguely like it ever showed up again. Lapis lazuli ovals suitable for rings or earrings were available for seven rubles (about $9.40 each) at the Intourist hotel shop in Irkutsk. Similar stones, in a somewhat deeper blue, cost nine rubles (about $12) at a Leningrad jewelry shop - not a Beriozka - across the street from the Hotel Yevropeiskaya.
    O fficial literature and Intourist guides usually advise visitors to avoid shopping until they are ready to leave the country. Group itineraries often institutionalize this advice by scheduling an afternoon of shopping on the day preceding departure. You are much less likely to be disappointed, however, if you shop whenever an opportunity arises. Mornings are best because Beriozkas are restocked every evening after closing and unusual or scarce items are snapped up. Early shopping also helps you avoid tour groups, which seem to schedule shopping trips after lunch.
    Don't count on picking up last-minute gifts at the airport. Moscow's International Airport has no Beriozka in its departure area. A small souvenir stand there sells only a few items. Customs formalities are unpredictable and often lengthy and could leave you with no time to make purchases even if a shop is available.
  • 3. If you plan to check Beriozkas in hotels other than the one in which you are registered, carry your passport and the hotel identification card that is given to you when you register. Soviet hotels prohibit strangers, and while tourists are not generally stopped if they look like foreigners and act as if they belong in the hotel, occasionally an adamant guard will try to bar your way. Speaking English and presenting either your hotel card or passport will generally get you through. But be prepared for the martinet by carrying card and passport.
  • 4. Allow more time for shopping than you think is necessary. Policies on opening and closing hours vary. Beriozkas in the hotels are usually open from 9 A.M. to 9 P.M. but those outside hotels are open from 9 A.M. to 4 P.M. In addition, Beriozkas close for inventory without warning, sometimes as often as every few days. On a recent trip, members of a tour group who left their shopping for a visit to Moscow's largest Beriozka, near the convent of Novadyevitchky, were as disappointed as their tour leader was surprised to find the shop closed for inventory. Most Beriozkas close for lunch between noon and 1:30 P.M. Sometimes sales clerks take coffeebreaks and shut up shop. In summer, lines may be long and slow, and the degree to which sales clerks are willing to rush in order to accommodate crowds is notoriously unpredictable.
  • 5. Carry one or two charge cards, as well as American money in one- and five-dollar denominations. A few dollars' worth of small change may also be useful. Beriozkas make change in foreign currency or rubles. In summer, particularly when shops are overrun by tourists, American coins are often in short supply and you may get your change in shillings, francs, kroner or whatever is available.
    All foreign money can be spent in a Beriozka but conversions can be confusing, so the less change, the better. Cashiers who find themselves short of coins may also shortchange you, or conversely, give you more change than you should get. Usually the differences are insignificant and can be ignored.
  • 6. Try to find out as much about Soviet products as you can by searching out booklets available in some, but not all Beriozkas. These booklets provide descriptions and color illustrations of the wares sold in Beriozkas and because there is no advertising in the U.S.S.R. are the only available source of information. Americans are often confused by Soviet products because they are unfamiliar with the range and variety of choices available. Use the booklets to compare designs you see with those you might prefer.
    You may have to search almost as diligently for the booklets as for unusual souvenirs. The booklets are not prominently displayed but are sometimes found near the cashier's stations. The Beriozkas in the Cosmos and Rossiya hotels in Moscow both had a large selection of these booklets a few months ago, but of course that is no guarantee they will still be there. Ask fellow tourists to look for booklets too, and share those you find. Each booklet deals with a category of goods - but there are a number of different booklets for each category, so keep looking.
  • 7. Buy most gifts at the Beriozkas, but don't hesitate to pick up small items at ordinary Russian shops or tourist stands in museums, airports or large department stores. The souvenir stand at the Omsk Airport, for example, sold pleasant winter scenes etched on blue or white glass for six rubles ($8); TSUM, a large Moscow department store more modern than the more famous GUM, carried a collection of inexpensive Soviet pins costing from a few kopecks to several rubles each. Some were attractive enough to pass as costume jewelry back home. Small stickpins, generally priced at less than a ruble, were fine for securing scarves or hats.
    A large Leningrad department store was the only shop that carried wooden Russian chess sets. At 38 rubles (about $50), with cheerful pieces painted in the style of Matryoshka dolls, the set was a distinctive bargain.
    In most department stores you must first get the price of the object you want to buy, then pay for it at the cash desk where you will be given a receipt. The receipt must be given to the sales clerk, who will exchange it for what you have bought. Department stores are open every day except Sunday -sometimes as late as 7 or 8 P.M.
  • 8. During your trip keep all receipts for all acquisitions large and small since you may be asked to present them to customs on leaving. Knowing the latest Soviet laws concerning exports is also advisable. A recent law, for example, prohibits export of books published before 1978. Expensive objects such as rugs or an inlaid chess set made of semiprecious stones purchased by one tourist for several hundred dollars were confiscated by customs officials who categorized them as art because the buyer lacked a receipt to demonstrate that the items were commercial and legal.
    Objects of art - which cannot be exported - quite reasonably include invaluable icons and rare antiques, but contemporary paintings and objects made by hand (hard to come by in any case) may also be confiscated.
    You may take out only 200 grams (four small jars or two medium-size jars) of caviar per person. All caviar must be purchased at a Beriozka and you must have a receipt to prove it. At 20 rubles for 100 grams (almost $27) Sevruga, considered the second finest caviar in the world, is not inexpensive. It is, however, still cheaper than in the United States, where the best price found recently was $38 for four ounces at Zabar's in New York City. Note, however, that some Russian caviar is not pasteurized and, if not kept cool en route, may spoil before it can be eaten.
    Soviet laws can change with frequency, so ask your guide or Intourist representative about them if you are considering any major purchase. And since even these usually knowledgeable and courteous people may be unable to predict how customs officials will interpret a specific law, if you can't afford to leave it behind and have any doubts about the legality of export, don't buy it.
  • 9. Don't change money on the black market. Offers to exchange American money for rubles at five or six times the official rate of 72 kopecks for one dollar may be tempting, but can land you in a Soviet jail.
  • 10. Finally, look beyond unsophisticated Russian marketing techniques which, by displaying so many duplicates of the same item, tend to devalue the object in the eyes of most Americans. We like to believe or pretend our possessions - and this is particularly true of jewelry - are unique or at least unusual. Confronted by dozens of strands of identical amber beads, we may reject them all. But the 18-ruble amber ring set in silver that looks so boring and ordinary in a case holding a hundred look-alikes will be smashingly original in the United States. Taking stock in Moscow
International Trade Center The best Beriozkas are in the International Trade Center at Krasnopresnenskayu, Nab 12 in central Moscow. Financed by Armand Hammer, the American industrialist, the International Trade Center is a hotel-residence used primarily by businessmen engaged in international trade. Within its somewhat forbidding gray walls, you will find a cheerful modern shopping mall lined with boutique-like Beriozkas. Goods are displayed Western style, in large glass windows, and the shops offer more original items of better craftsmanship. An amber pendant set in a handmade silver bezel sold for 32 rubles (about $43); an attractive bone carving of a moose cost eight rubles, 76 kopecks ($12). Stunning lacquered pins set in silver, with scenes from Russian legends, ranged from $81 for a rectangular shape an inch-and-a-half high, to $86 for an oval three inches in diameter. Exquisitely enameled cups and saucers sold for more than $500 each, but there were also simple silvery salt cellars with spoons for $1.30 and some in red, white and gold enamel for $4.60. The best selection of bone pins were priced from four to five rubles, 40 kopecks ($5.30 to about $6.75). On another floor at the same hotel, a food Beriozka sells, in addition to the usual caviar and an assortment of vodkas (try the spicy pepper vodka -Pertsovka - at about $4.80 a half-liter, hazelnut cookies at 75 cents a box and small tins of halvah for 50 cents each. Hotel Rossiya The Beriozka at this hotel is also worth a visit. On the ground floor of the enormous 6,000-room hotel, which is adjacent to the Kremlin, the Beriozka also contained a number of unusual items. Enameled egg cup sets (two cups on a small tray with spoons) cost eight rubles or $10.60; and porcelain teacups and saucers decorated with dainty blue flowers were a bargain at one ruble, 79 kopecks ($2.30); similar coffee cups and saucers cost four rubles, 78 kopecks ($6.30). Russian porcelain is extraordinarily fine and delicate but most designs are a bit gaudy for American tastes. Transporting the porcelain can also be a problem. The Rossiya also had a good selection of fur hats. A shapka - the traditional Russian winter headgear with brim and earflaps - cost 11 rubles, 70 kopecks (about $15) in dyed black rabbit; 73 to 82 rubles ($87 to almost $100) in squirrel. A nicely made woman's hat in dark or light mink with a small cuff cost 52 rubles ($67) - the same price as an elegant nutria muff. Fur coats are not recommended: they are poorly styled, the tanning process is less attractive than our own, and prices are high for the quality offered. Soviet postage stamps displayed in the Rossiya - and at a small stand in the Cosmos Hotel, near the Park of Economic Achievements - could make lovely framed miniatures. Particularly attractive were reproductions of famous paintings. The stamps cost 7 to 13 rubles a set or $9.30 to $17. The Rossiya also had a few picture books for children, priced at less than a dollar; a wider selection can be found at Kuznetsky Most 18. Inexpensive, if not very attractive, posters can be purchased on Arbat Street, sheet music (including complete opera scores) is available at Nelinnaya 14, Gertsen 13 and on Arbat Street for $4 and up. TSUM and GUM To buy the medals or little pins that Russians collect when they tour their own country, take a walk through TSUM at Petrovka Street 2 or through GUM on Red Square, Moscow's two largest department stores. Housed in a striking 19th-century, glass-domed building, GUM has been partially refurbished in recent years. It is actually an indoor mall lined with 1,000 small shops. The merchandise is as shoddy as the building is grand, but a trip to GUM will allow you to observe the Russians as they shop. You can buy pirozhki from vendors posted near the shop entrances and ice cream at any time of year from stands inside the building. Caveats If you purchase Russian perfumes, which are pleasant smelling and inexpensive, be aware that they often leave stains and are best applied to a bit of cloth or a handkerchief. And if you purchase any pins, even the more expensive ones, you may want to file the points so that they will not leave large holes in your best silk dress.G.L.”
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Quaestio subtilissima, utrum Chimera in vacuo bombinans possit comedere secundus intentiones, et fuit debatuta per decem hebdomadas in concilio Constantiensi
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Re: Quiz dell’accatto sovietico

Messaggio da Gamanto »

Rammento che con la Perestrojka sul finire degli anni Ottanta arrivarono in Italia, oltre agli arcinoti Komandirskie veicolati dalla Time Trend, anche capi d'abbigliamento targati Beriozka. A Milano li vendeva la Standa, se non ricordo male. All'epoca comprai pantaloni e giubbotto di jeans. Il giubbotto l'ho ancora, tenuto come una reliquia: scritte in inglese e cirillico e ganzissima borchia in metallo con falce e martello e sigla CCCP! :D
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Là dove c'è il pericolo, cresce anche ciò che salva - Friedrich Holderlin
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Re: Quiz dell’accatto sovietico

Messaggio da DaniLao »

Bellino il giacchetto. Ci farai un figurone al prossimo pranzo.

Intanto ecco come si presentava nel 1986 il Beriozka al terminal internazionale dell'aereoporto di Mosca (ex Sheremetyevo 2).
Si noti come i commessi sian piuttosto eleganti... Il tipo appoggiato alla colonna... Beh, non avevano il coraggio di chiedere se si potesse spostare per la foto...

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Quaestio subtilissima, utrum Chimera in vacuo bombinans possit comedere secundus intentiones, et fuit debatuta per decem hebdomadas in concilio Constantiensi
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Re: Quiz dell’accatto sovietico

Messaggio da DaniLao »

Il pippone sui Beriozka ha entusiasmato solo Gamanto (a proposito, sulla baia è in vendita un giacchetto come il tuo ma misura L, io non c’entro :lol: ) dunque vi butto lì un altro indizio che dovrebbe rendere tutto più chiaro

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Quaestio subtilissima, utrum Chimera in vacuo bombinans possit comedere secundus intentiones, et fuit debatuta per decem hebdomadas in concilio Constantiensi
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Re: Quiz dell’accatto sovietico

Messaggio da Крокодил »

Ma non si vince nemmeno uno Strela?
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Set di rubli Zecca di Leningrado (era: Quiz dell’accatto sovietico)

Messaggio da DaniLao »

...e tornando a noi debbo confessare d’averla fatta lunga anche se Zvezda ci aveva preso subito, ecco di cosa si tratta

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Un simpatico set di rubli fior di conio emessi dalla zecca di Leningrado, mi perdonerete se fotografato col telefonino...

In realtà il lotto ne comprendeva tre confezioni degli anni ‘77, 79 e 90

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All’interno della confezione di cartone un blister espositivo in plastica dura dove le monete (9 in tutto) sono incastonate perché le si possano rimirare fronte e retro e perché se ne preservi il pristino splendore (fior di conio o mint che dir si voglia)

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Le monete da 1 rublo (7,5 g, 27 mm), 50 copechie (4,4 g, 24 mm), 20 copechie (3,4 g, 21,8 mm), 15 copechie (2,5 g, 19,6 mm) e 10 copechie (11,6 g, 17,3 mm) sono di una lega rame-nichel-zinco.
Le monete da 5 copechie (5,0 g, 25 mm) e 3 copechie (3,0 g, 22 mm) sono di bronzo all’alluminio, quelle da 2 copechie (2,0 g, 18 mm) e 1 copechia (1,0 g, 15 mm) sono di generalmente (e, da quel che ho letto, secondo i cataloghi) di con possibilità di varianti in bronzo all’alluminio.

Il rovescio delle nove monete riporta la data e il valore, il diritto l’emblema di Stato della Repubblica Socialista Sovietica.

Completano il set un lingotto con l’anno di produzione (in russo da una parte e in inglese dall’altro) e un gettone (placchetta) della Zecca di Leningrado a forma di rombo (in ottone, 24 millimetri, la foto non è mia ma presa da qua)

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58f937b609268_russia_leningrad_mintmesso.jpg.a54bbc2fb58dd04550a2785ea9b41cf3.jpg (38.18 KiB) Visto 2707 volte
Sul diritto la nostra Zecca di Leningrado in cornice ovale con la scritta ЛМД (Zecca Leningrado).
Questo è il portone principale che sul gettone si vede in prospettiva

la-zecca-di-san-pietroburgo-la-russia-f40adf.jpg
la-zecca-di-san-pietroburgo-la-russia-f40adf.jpg (262.85 KiB) Visto 2707 volte
Sul rovescio due iscrizioni speculari separate da una diagonale:
ЛЕНИНГРАДСКИЙ
МОНЕТНИЙ ДВОР
ГОЗНАКА
МИНИСТЕРСТВО ФИНАНСОВ СССР

Nelle diverse annate varia il colore dell’inserto

Leningrad Mint 5.JPG
Leningrad Mint 5.JPG (375.74 KiB) Visto 2707 volte
Che dire, erano oggetti da turisti, ecco perché erano venduti nei Beriozka; solo uno dei miei ha l’etichetta (che è un valore aggiunto) ma ne ho trovati altri in rete egualmente etichettati.

Restano oggetti da turisti per tradizione, io stesso ho visto con i miei occhi i loro succedanei contemporanei (insieme a varie forme di piccoli lingottini d’oro celebrativi) in vendita in uno stand blindato accanto alla reception interna al Rus Hotel di Kiev non più di cinque anni orsono.

Da parte mia li trovo interessanti e ormai testimonianza di qualcosa che non c’è più.

Nonostante ne abbia incontrati taluni a prezzi bislacchi con un po’ di pazienza si trovano anche investendoci il giusto
Quaestio subtilissima, utrum Chimera in vacuo bombinans possit comedere secundus intentiones, et fuit debatuta per decem hebdomadas in concilio Constantiensi
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